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good morning from thork. i'm chris he's. egypt's new constitution appears headed towards the approval despite objections from opposition groups official ru89s are expect on monday. and ted kennedy jr. is considering a run for the senate seat that will become vacant if senator john kerry is confirmed as the next secretary of state. i'm joined by former democratic governor of new jersey, james florio. and heidi moore. finance and editor of "the guardian newspapers. and dean baker, author of "the end of loser liberalism, making markets progressive." codirector of the center for economic and policy research. so, after at least after a dozen different public offers, countless press conferences and weeks of closed car door talks

lawmakers in washington left town for the holidays on friday without an agreement to avert what we're calling the fiscal curb. a series of automatic tax increases and spending cuts to take affect a week from now. a moment this week, the two sides seemed on the cusp of a deal. that would have involved at least one major concession from president obama. to cut social security benefits. the cuts wouldn't have been direct. they would have come from a tweak to the way the social security benefits are calculated. here's how it works. right now the amount of money a retireee gets from the government gets is changed due to the index. when inflakes goes up, social security recipients see their payments go up the same amount to keep up with the cost of living. obama proposes switching to "chained cpi. "the name is opaque but the name is simple. the chained cpi rises more slow lie than regular cpi. if you yoois chain cpi to calculate social security benefits the amounts of the

social security checks will rise more slowly, as well, against inflation. for about two days, this major concession opposed by many progressive lawmakers seemed close to becoming law until jeanne boehner walked away from the deal and tried to yankee laterally pass his own bill which he called, somewhat weirdly, plan b, to raise taxes on over 100 million and suspend all leeming cuts. that plan blew up in boehner's face, however, when he couldn't get enough votes from his own caucus to pass it. here's boehner, the day after pulling the bill from the floor. >> because of the political divide in the country, because of the divide here in washington, trying to bridge these differences has been difficult. while we may have not been able to get the votes last night, to avert 99.81% of the tax increases, i don't think -- they weren't taking that out on me. they were dealing with the

perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes. >> probably because he's asking them to vote for raising taxes. later on friday, president obama reiterated he wants to reach a broad compromise to cut the deficit so social security cuts remain on the table but in the mean time, the president proposed his own plan b, to extend the bush tax cuts on income under $250,000. >> once this legislation is agreed to, i expect democrats and republicans to get back to washington and have it pass both chambers and i will sign the legislation into law before january 1st of next year. it's that simple. >> well, i was surprised by the events this week in terms of the boehner total disaster. i just -- i didn't really get the whole plan from the beginning and i don't understand why you have people vote for a tax increase that mappings to break the pledge that they've all signed but it has no chance

of becoming law and clearly, his caucus didn't understand it either. dillon what did you think? >> two things. first and foremost, i think boehner was trying to get action in washington, which we haven't seen and people have been very critical of this move. i thought it was a fairly shrewd political move in that if they were able to actually get the package passed -- >> right. >> it would have put the ball back in the president's court and back in the senate's court and made it less likely that republicans were blamed for what i'm starting to believe is the inevitable that we go over the fiscal cliff. true, it was asking the house republicans to vote for a tax increase. but it was -- they got some cover from grower and others and i think it was a political exercise more so than anythings and it had enabled the work, it would have changed the scenario.

>> governor, you know first-hand the politics of raising taxes. what did you make of all this? >> i almost felt sorry for speaker boehner. being torn apart by his own caucus. i'm enthusiastic about them passing anything. tax bills have to start in the house. the senate can take whatever vehicle they send over and substitute for it something that makes sense and have it sent back and it's on them to say yes or no as to whether we go over the cliff. that's really the approach. >> so you want to see something come out of the house? >> anything. anything. and you substitute the total bill. but it has to come out of the house and that's the rationale for getting something there. >> they actually did get something out of the house early last week. they stopped the defense sequester and that's all they did because it won't go anywhere after that. the $500 billion in defense cuts are still set to take place. all the other spending cuts are set to take place and it's, of course, in deal-making this is called the ckabuki theater and

people are depending on them to get it right by the deadline. there's no argument being made that it's good to go over the fiscal cliff. >> please, make the argument, dean. >> one argument is that there are will be a lot of people in washington that pretend to be ve very knowledgeable. but seriously, if nothing happens on january 1st, i'll be subject to a higher rate of withholding. if they do a deal on january 5th as opposed to december 28th, the difference to 99.9% of the population is basically zilch and we get to see a lot of people with egg on their face. >> why. >> because they've been running around like the myian calendar, the end of the world and it's nonsense. the reality is on the spending side, president obama will keep spending in accordance with what he thinks the deals look like. he has the authority to do that. we won't see any extra taxes deducted from us, the few people that do will get back to the second page. i don't want to trivialize it.

in terms of the overall economic impact you won't be able to find it in the data. >> but the imagery is terrible. not only around this country but the world, as to whether we can govern ourselves. we look like a third-world nation. >> because we're acting like one. let me back up, our major problem in this country is the recession, the lack of employment, 25 million people unemployed, underemployed, out of the workforce altogether. the reason we have a deficit and this is easy to show, the reason we have a big deficit is because the economy collapsed. we know that. that's not an arguable point instead, people are running around washington with a trillion-dollar deficit. >> but it's not a deaf -- to say this won't have an economic impact so i take issue with that. >> here's the distinction. two things here. one is the $500 billion number and the cbo analysis which says it will throw us back into a recession which, i think we all

agree -- and the funny thing is the embed add sum information all this is that austerity is bad in the short term? let's be aware. now everyone suddenly agrees th contractioniary policy. everyone agrees if you have a full, an i'llized 12 months of tax increases and spending cuts that are projected that start on january 1st, i think there's any center that says that would be a disaster for the economy. we're all agreed on that. the question is if it goes for five days or ten days or 20 days, does it have the effect. and the other question is, do the markets freak out because we go over it? >> first of all if i'm the newly-elected president of the united states who has a legacy to think about why wooir take that chance? certainly my friends on capitol hill on the republican side of the aisle have come to the reerlization that the president is prepared to take them over the fiscal cliff which is why

you have the boehner move. i don't understand why you'd want to start the presidency with the potential of going over a fiscal cliff that could potentially put us into a recession. why not work a deal for the short term. why not look to do something more broad based next year? >> it would be been good to do it two months ago but the reality is, there's always risk. realistically if we take 5 to be 10, 20 days. the markets panic over everything. i assume these are rational actors. even if the market goes down 3 or 4%, markets fluctuate all the time. it goes down one day and back the next week and the impact on the economy is the same thing as my decision to go out to dinner next week. >> i disagree with that statement. it goes down 3 or 4% and then a lot of wealth has been destroyed. >> but it comes back. >> not necessarily for those same people.

i explain that to my mother all the time. 100 points up or 100 points down is not flat. >> with all due respect to our representatives, they have a dismal record on what would cause a crisis and i don't think we should trust their predictions that'sing it would be okay. and 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. >> that we should be clear on. >> and, there, too, i want trivialize that. this matters to those people and the economy as a whole, trivial. but to those people, yes. >> and if you leave it hanging out there, the next concern is the debt limit which will come up in a couple of months if not before. that will make it -- compound the problem even more so. >> i want to talk about some of the deals that -- we have a great graphic put together that looks how the deals have evolved over time. and shows that they were actually negotiating even though i thought a lot of stuff they were negotiating over was bad but i want to talk about this chained cpi thing because it's hanging out there. and an amazing quote from the

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the "wall street journal" has their first big behind the scenes tick-tock of those negotiations. and this was the quote that stuck out to me the most. at one point according to notes, mr. boehner told it will 'president, i put $800 billion on the tax table and what do i get? you get nothing, the president said. i get that for free. >> that's a fair point. there was another point at which the boehner negotiator seemed like they wanted the deal on the table in 2011 during the debt ceiling and according to this "wall street journal" reporting several times, either boehner or staff said, let's go back to that deal and they said, no, no, no. thaujs have changed. we just won an election. you don't get to go back to the

deals. according to how the talks were progressing, here's some various fiscal curb offers. as put together by the committee for responsibility federal budget. and you can see that they were, on the bottom, is cuts. on the top is revenue. you can see they're getting closer to being essentially, one-to-one, which is i don't think is good macroeconomic theory but from a negotiating standpoint is closer to a deal and then it all blew up. dean, you think that's a good idea? and partly i would imagine you think it's a good idea because i imagine you think this chained cpi was a red line, no-go? >> a couple things. first off, the whole thing, the whole story, we have to get $4 trillion, this number is out of the air. these people have a zero record of being right about anything and you're talking about economists behind it. if they were held accountable for their work they would all be unemployed right now. you have to understand thises a big cut and they're trying to play games.

it's 3/10 of a percent a year, cumulative. after you get benefits for ten years you're lose 3%. 20 years, 6%, after 30 years, 9%. the hit is considerably larger than the tax hit to the typical person over $250,000 who would be subject to clinton dasher are tax rates and we're told this is not a big deal. most seniors are not living particularly well. we have the data on that. roughly 40% rely on their social security check with averages over $1200 a month for 90% or more of their income. 70% rely on it for more than half their income so the idea of these high-living seniors, i don't need my check, that's fine. send it back. very few people like you, pete. this is a big deal. >> there's even a question as to why we're dealing with the social security problem. it's not part of the deficit anyway, except for the part that should be dealt with later on. >> i keep getting into this thing, it's semantics. it's not just part of the budget but the other part of the story

is it's a program that overthe long reason faces a shortfall. i know how i want it resolved but at the end of the day we'll probably see some amount of benefit cuts and some amount of revenue increases, whatever you call it. if you have unilateral benefit cuts you've given away a large part of the store. >> in the near term i think this is a moot point. there won't be a grand bargain in getting the entitlement reforms probably won't be on the table between now and december 31st or, to use your logic, early in january if a deal does get done which, again, i'm not cop convinced of. i do think that people missed the point in terms of their revolt of conservatives on the hill and speaker boehner's caucus. conservative conservatives want to see some real spending reductions and they get the sense that that's at play. they thought those spending reductions would come out of entitlement reform and that won't happen. they thought it might come from tax reform but that's not going

to happen. >> this is an important point. there's two ways to look at spending cut side. are you worried about the math? or are you worried about the precedent? from the math perspective, the chain cpi thing doesn't get you much. here's a look at how -- >> notice interest savings does. >> right. look at this. we've done the comparison of a bunch of different things on the table for deficit reduction. everything from, no -- that's the wrong chart. that's the tax hike caused by epi. i want the revenue sources. there we go. thank you, carbon tax, 1.2 trillion. raise taxes on over 250 million and deferral for off-shore profits. and limit itemized deductions 22 22 580 billion. the important thing for

republicans and tell me if i'm right. the important thing is the idealogical precedent of doing something to the big entitlement programs. >> republicans are have been in congress for years and have said, you know, dating back to my old boss george h.w. bush. they put the revenue on the table and call it what you will but they agreed to raising revenues and they want something in rush for that in terms of real spending reductions. and you know, the president's first salvo in terms of his offering did not have that. he was $4 trillion and it's all made up, a trillion of savings from the wars. 1.6 trillion in -- it wasn't real. so i think boehner's effort was an effort to say, listen, we'll go along with raising revenue. we'll be on record raising revenue. up to a trillion dollars but we need something in return.

we need to actually get on a treek that reduces spending in washington and doesn't play games. doctor fixes around things of this nature, never come to pass. >> this same house caucus, what's the one thing they passed? >> this support of the sequestration cuts. they are going to end the sequestration cuts which is going nowhere. >> so we can translate, the one thing they passed is revoking already agreed-to m cuts in spending of $500 billion. what have they done? voted to revoke the agreed-to cuts of spending. that's the only thing. >> i'm not sure there's not politics on both sides. what i am suggesting is remember how we got here. we had a supercommittee that was supposed to come up with $1.2 trillion worth of cuts and they couldn't produce it so we had the i'm matter of sequestration coming in and mace a blunt instrument. >> to cut spending which apparently.

>> apparently both sides are -- snee one wants to cut spending. >> but no one ran for cutting social security. they ran against obama because he wanted to cut $700 billion on medicare. they didn't run in the campaign we're cutting medicare, we're going to cut social security. we're going to cut medicare and now, they want obama to say i'm doing this so i can be nice to speaker boehner? >> hold that thought. we'll be back after this quick break. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

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nobel laureate in economics, and one of the most cited economists in the world. professor sargent, can you tell me what cd rates will be in two years? no. if he can't, no one can. that's why ally has a raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money needs an ally. governor? >> i fully understand the whole concept of giving cover to the opponents, letting them get something out of this process but the tea party did end a significant support anyway. so why make all the symbolic cuts as far as helping them when they're not going to come back anyway. so i really don't see the virtue in making some of these draconian cuts, particularly, in order to get support. >> so you did not like the chained cpi cut proposal? >> no. if that's the dealmaker, fine. that's not the end of the world

but that's not going to be the deal maker and it's not going to bring any of these people over. >> apparently, it wasn't bringing anyone over. >> no, it didn't. it was a political failure and also, i don't really think that it's actually symbolic. dean, you mentioned a whole bunch of statistics related to social security. i think the most significant one is the average benefit is $13,000 a year. we're talking about taking away the possibility of paying for food from people who are living on $13,000 a year. from people who are making hundreds of thousands in congress. >> let me make this argument which is not mine but people have made, particularly democrats trying to convince other liberals toll for the chain cpi deal and we should note it's technical. it doesn't matter that much but the reason it's different than the regular consumer price index because it expectations into account substitution effects. which basically, coffee gets more expensive so people start buying tea so the overall amount they spend is less this that's

what chain cpi take into account that regular cpi doesn't, so people understand. all that being said, people make this argument, liberals when they talk about defense, when we bend the curve on defense increasing we were clear to say, no, that's not a cut to defense. that's changing the rate of growth. how can you then turn around and say it's a cut to security when you're just changing the trait of growth? >> yeef a probe talking about defense or social security. but the -- >> those are cuts. >> but the point is that we're talking about social security benefits that are in law that people are counting on and getting back to how we think about this. first of all when we talk about an accurate cost of living adjustment, the bureau of statistics does an elderly index. it's different than the population as a whole, conseem more health care. >> this is called cpi-e. and that shows a higher rate of measured inflation. if your concern is accuracy, have the bureau of labor and

statistics do a full elderly index and they go running. they want to cut pen benefits. that's the point. we're talking about a population with not a lot of income for the most part and what i find particularly cruel is these people have just had their ass kicked. the 401(k)'s are nothing. the equity they have in their home has collapsed. not because of they're bad decisions, the folks in washington couldn't see a trillion-dollar housing bubble. they were out to lumplg. so the people that blew this up, we're talking about cutting social security. what world does that make sense in. >> dillon, can i ask you this question? >> sure. >> what kind of thing -- i get confuse and now i'm not trying to -- i get confuse about -- are republicans, well, okay. i am concerned. i don't believe republicans care about the deficit as the deficit. none of their behavior indicates that. and i mean, they're behavior during tr go. works bush years and the behavior i just indicated where they revoked $500 billion in

cuts. it's fine to say it's not the deficit. they care about things like reducing made care over the ling longrun or they don't like the fact the entitlement state is making people -- what are the actual principles at play here in these negotiations? i am confused. >> i think that republicans do care about the denver sit. i think they care about spending more than the deficit. >> well put, i agree. >> and i suspect that if you were to poll the republican caucus on the hill, there is a overwhelming majority of people that say -- the country is lived beyond its means and somehow, somewhere, we have to get it under control. the way to do that, obviously, is where the money is being spend which is entitlement programs. as a political matter nobody wants to talk about cuts. i agree with you. we talk about bending the curve.

we talk about savings. but in the end, we have to find are real cuts in the way we spend the nation's money -- capital. so that's a politically painful thing to do. republicans are very interested in being blamed for what i would argue is a morally responsible thing to do. so they play games to make sure they're not, you know, have that load is not around their neck but the reality is, and i think in good fate, most people in congress believe that at some point, we've got to get our arms around entitlement spending and that's an important part of this debate. >> i know you want to respond to that. i have some thoughts as well. first a break. ♪ [ male announcer ] how could a luminous protein in jellyfish,

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made care is different because our health care system is totally broken. we spend more than twice as much per person as people do in other wealthy countries. it's a health care problem. we have to fix our health care system and that's what we should be talking about. queer deluding ourselves talking about medicare and medicaid. >> i think everyone agrees that the medicare projections are not sustainable. that's -- the question is, what is the source of the unsustainability? my feeling is, we just spent all this time, legislative effort, political capital, passing this 2,000-page bill which the tea party keeps telling me it's 2,000 pages which means it's good. we passed this bill mostly which was stuff to bring down health care costs. it might not work. it might be a total disaster. all the critics of the bill's cost-containment measures might totally true but let's see. then we'll come back and attack the problem in five years. >> it's slow. amazing we're having this debate as though there's been 2340 change. there has. >> heidi? >> the other thing is with the elderly, the people getting social security, we're talking

about measuring their inflation adjustments for income or consumer products. we really should be looking at the inflation of health care which is way above consumer products and which is where they're spending most of their money. >> this is the experimental index? >> dylan, here's the issue the republicans have politically. we're talking about internal dynamics. this is polling on republicans. okay? not the house caucus but actual -- >> we had a bill poll. >> but here's the polling meaning republican voters. if you say to them, do you want the deficit reduced? sure. then you give them options, raise the medicare age. cut medicaid spending. eliminate meaning interest tax deductions. cut medicare spending. cut medicare spending, 68% of republicans are opposed. >> i'm sure the numbers where on the democrats' side. i think the point is this requires leadership. hard things require leadership which means, the president of united states and leadership on the hill have to come together

to educate the american public that this math we're on in terms of spending is unsustainable. >> you say leadership and i hear anti-democratic betrayal. >> i'm serious. it's like one person's leadership is another person's bait and switch. right? >> potato/potatop. >> we know that the issue in terms of cost in this country is health care. we know that the medicare premiums, medicare expenditures in this country are not something that we can continue to sustain. there's a fix, everybody won't be happy with the fix but we could get to policy prescription that solves the problem. politics in and around that that makes it extremely difficult. >> you did some unpopular things when you were governor. you raised taxes and you got absolutely hammered for it. what's you're feeling about it? >> leadership entails the need for somebody to appreciate the fact that no answer is easy.

there are no easy answers anymore. the willingness to compromise off of that is leader ship. when you have a group of people in the house on the house of representatives that represents the strange ones at the right end, they're not willing to compromise at all so you can't have leadership with people not willing to come to some accommodation. >> let me say also, i want to insert a dissident view about the no easy answers. you can print money and give it to people. >> we're doing that now. >> but do it on a much bigger scale. >> $85 billion a month right now. >> no, no. we are printing money and giving it to banks. you could just print money and give it to people. i know that's obviously why outside the boundaries but -- >> in the short term you can. that's absolute it will right. i would love to have somebody give me an argument as to why we can't do that in the current economy. >> but today, i made a joke about this a while ago and

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a 47-year-old south carolina native and a member of the house tea party caucus. after running for congress in 2010 and beating strom thurmond's son, his fact act was to overturn obama care. and scott will be the first black senator from the south since reconstruction. the first black republican senator since edward brookes of massachusetts lost the re-election bid in 1978, and the only black senator currently serving. tim scott will be the seventh black senator in the nation's history and on three occasions have african-americaning been elected to the upper chamber. only one time has a blaek senator been both elected and re-elected. the governor is aware and she sounded self-conscious about the governor reerting an eastern american. >> it is very important to me as a minority female that congressman scott earned this

seat. he earned this seat for the person that he is. he earned this seat for the results that he has shown. he earned this seat for what i know he's going to do in making south carolina and making our country proud. >> right now i want to bring in atlanta's democratic mayor, founder and president of the center for social inclusion a nonprofit organization dedicated to fighting social and economic inequality. and kevin alexander grey. a attorney from south carolina and great to have you here. >> i wish i were an attorney. >> so, tell me this. what was your reaction on that nikki haley clip? >> what is going on in this? what is the subtext of this kind of going out of her way? >> none of us were surprised that nikki haley appointed tim scott. that was a smart moove. that was a boss move. when you look at politics of south carolina, they've always been about race. all the time. that's our history.

we say the south carolina, like with georgia, is the heart of dixie, south carolina is the soul of dixie. so it's all about race. but then again, as i was watching this clip and i seen nikki haley embrace her minority status. niki's taught about a traditionally all-black school in orangeburg county. they had a business centered in the heart of the black community. so at some point in nikki haley's life she decide, and we jooerk, she wanted to be a white methodist woman so i'm glad to see her embracing her immigrant my neither roots. >> can i make a small tangent here? to me, nothing better shows the social construction of race than nikki haley, right? i was thinking about this when i saw her at the rnc. anyone turning on would say, this is a white woman, right? it calls to mind how constructed our conceptions of what is whiteness and what is blackness. >> and it does seem to me a big deal that we have a black senator from south carolina. >> it's a huge deal that we have

a black senator from south carolina. from, you know, the deep south? who is a man, by the way, that got elected with 70% of the vote and with the high percentage of the vote in a 70% white district to congress. would we be having this conversation if tim scott wasn't a conservative? probably not. still, although less so today, if you have a different view and you happen to be black, if you happen to have a conservative view and be black, some reason you're suspect. and -- i don't think that's true. >> we've praised colin powell. they gave him and lisa rice image awards. you didn't see them vilified. >> i'm suggesting that this will wouldn't be interesting if tim scott was not a conservative. >> let me push back on that a little bit since i'm making the editorial decision to discuss this. >> your license. >> no, no, no.

i think that's a totally fair point. and i would say two things. one is, african-americans are a constituency in this country that joets overwhelmingly in one direction. so there's something statistically, you know, salient about black conservatives, just because it is unusual in the distribution. there's no real analog for it in american politics. the other thing i would say is if this were a black man in the south and a democrat, it would be interesting to me, too. to me what's as interesting for him being a republican is that this is south carolina. this is the american south. the heart of dixie. >> this is a whole heck of a lot about where the republican party is headed and where it knows it needs to get and -- >> get back to that 10%. >> i don't think it says any of that. let's just slow down for a minute. i'm happy for tim scott as an individual. but tim scott's policies are no different than jim demint's and at the end of the day, this is a

very high occasion for tim scott and his family. but let's not try to make this an out sized event. if any black person in america were appointed to the united states senate, it would be well covered. because of the data that you laid out. >> that's right. >> the fact that he's a conservative is a response in large part, to the thrashing that republicans got nationally. and this was an opportunity to begin to correct course. but let's not try to make tim scott's selection more than about a great occasion for him. his policies are consistent with jim demint's and in my mind -- >> let me say, any time something good in tim scott's life happens we do cover it on the show. we have a standing editorial policy. >> you said one thing about the pattern of black voting and i think one thing that we should remember is that higher educationally, blacks voted for the republican party because the republican party, during the time of the civil war and after,

was the party that was most likely to push for equality and opportunity. the party of lincoln. what's happened is, blacks have left the republican party in droves to the democratic party starting in part because of the deal because at the end of the day what black people were doing are voting in their interests. i think what tim scott represents is someone who is black who has into the been smorting the policy interests of the black community. that is interesting. i also agree that actually, if -- we would be talking about any black senator because it's unique. >> if you go back and look at the history of south carolina and politics in south carolina. strom thurmond and blacks relationship with strom thurmond. >> he won 30%. >> any republican who wean 30% of black voters today would be -- >> every high school kid that graduated from high school when i came up, got that lottery from stro strom thurmond. if your family had problems in the military, you didn't call the red cross first. you called strom thurmond's

office first. he had the first black staff member. he was responsive to his constituency. he had the first black staff member, tom moss. and tim scott will get a significant amount of black votes because people will go to him in that same tradition as they went to strom thurmond. and he won't play race like a lot of them. >> i want to ask you this question. i want to see if -- because this is an appointment. the real question is, how few statewide elected black leaders we have in the country as a whole, but particularly in the south. we'll take about that after this break. ♪ [ male announcer ] campbell's green bean casserole. it's amazing what soup can do hi, i'm ensure clear... clear, huh? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've got nine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat.

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>> the mayor's cousin is the quarterback of the seattle seahawks, russell wilson is having insane year. >> unbelievable. >> amazing. sorry. the big question i think isn't whether an appointment -- the appointment is a big deal because obviously like you said it's a big day for tim scott but

it's also a big deal when you have african-american senators in this country. this is not something that happens that often and more often than not it's by appointment. >> and before that the only one was roland burris who briefly served. before that a man named barack obama and before that -- and then there was everbrooks before her. the big question is -- can he get -- is it -- you're from south carolina. and i'm getting a little ahead of myself but he'll now have the advantage of incumbency which is, are we at a point where tim scott could win statewide office in the state like south carolina? >> in full disclosure, i helped with the green petr candidate that ran for the senate against demint and alvin green. i think tim scott could get a significant amount of black votes. like white voters voted for j.c. watts, white folks will vote for people they perceive represent their interest regardless of their color so y50i6r7k tim scott has a chance to be ebb elected to that seat and hold

that seat for a while. >> i think he can win because losing makes you sober and i think the republicans will continue to liez nationally if they don't change significantly. >> because we're all learning individuals, if the republican party continues on the path it's on, they will not be able to win the presidency. and so, i think that this was an important investment in the conversation and the ability to have standard bearers for a national election. otherwise, they're going to continue to move toward the relevancy. the democratic party is driving through v, north carolina, where we lost by two points. georgia, he was 45 ahead. >> the next place they're looking is georgia? >> this is one of the things that i think we can't ignore. the demobilization of black community in the south. one of the things that happened after the civil rights movement is we saw more and more of the institutions that were about political education, that were not just about pipelining black,

particularly blooek leaders who were going to look at and develop an understand the policies that were necessary for the black community. in order for it to thrive. we have actually seen a demobilization of that infrastructure. so when we have this conversation like 30% of blaeks voting for strom thurmond, one of the things we have to think about is, we're responding to, this is the guy that made the phone call or wrote the letter that helped me out. it's a different kind of political education and engagement than saying -- what actually fixes some of the things that we need fixed in our community? how are we assessing our political leadership on that basis? that's something that's actually extremely important and we've been seeing less and less of it in many black communities. >> i want to agree with my friend, mayor reed. the republican party is a learning party and it knows it has to have elected officials that look like america. i don't want to suggest that tim scott is a token. he's not. we elected, you know, two hispanic governors in this

country. we've got two asian governors in this country on the republican side of the aisle. there are people of color that are getting elected statewide in the republican party in this country. and i think that is a lesson for the party. >> but, here's the big question. >> some people would say the fact that you can count them and tick them off like that is probably tokenism. >> that's not fair. >> i don't think tokenism is fair. but they're going to continue to lose. if the policies remain the same, you'll have people like alan west and if republicans don't understand that it's not individuals, policy shifts have to change, then they'll continue to lose. >> you're right. in the last election the republicans did too much about race i. having tim scott cuts into the whole idea of southern poll six being so based on rieshl

tension. >> i think you're right. one of the things i want to talk about here is the way, in the south, that you have partly because of the way redistricting has gone. partly because of the voting rights act and the way they worked together. is that the racial divide and partizan divide have come to sit atop each other almost -- you have the case with black voters and black elected officials who are democrats. white voters and white-elected officials who are republicans. there's not a lot 06 of overlap in either direction. i'm not talking about the novelty of a black republican. there's not that many white democrats in the south. look at the numbers in alabama and mississippi. >> and in the last legislative year republicans tried to have party registration so they can further drive that. >> we'll talk about that more after this break. [ male announcer ] when ziggy the cat appeared at their door,

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i'm chris he's here with the mayor of atlanta, democrat, kaseem reed. and dylan glen and kevin alexander grey of counterpunch.org. not times you get a former staffer and a writer from counterpunch.org at the table. no big deal. >> power here. >> that's right. mayor, i want to talk to you about -- we're talking about tim scott who is an african-american congressman recently appointed to fill jim demint's senate seat in south carolina and it's a big deal, largely because how require african-american senators are and that it is south carolina, a state whose history is as acutely colored by racial politics as any state in the union i would argue. you're the maier of atlanta. >> yes. >> georgia is a place that -- whose demographics in politics are changing in a way that a lot of people think it might be the next state. we have virginia and neither

carolina. we've shown those can go blue. georgia might be the next place? >> there's a clear path. i think the president lost north carolina by about two points. could have won that. >> and he won it the first time around? >> didn't invest in georgia and got 45.2%. the previous elections, he got 46.7. his numbers are moving up. georgia's becoming increasingly diverse. florida i believe is gone for republicans. i think virginia has gone for them. but i happen to believe that hillary clinton's going to run for president. if she does, i think bill clinton is going to want to go for it. and i think if you have a presidential campaign that with a clinton on the ticket, that spends 10, 12, $14 million, the kind of money you spend when you're trying to win a state, that they win georgia in 2016. >> you know, what we used to say about georgia? once you leave atlanta, you're in georgia. >> you'll never know. >> could you wine statewide office in georgia? >> i don't know. i'm going to be mayor of atlanta

for the next five years so that's not my business, but i believe that hillary clinton could win georgia. >> i'm from georgia. i have to just pipe up and say that i think that go. will remain a republican state and i'm hopeful will continue to make strides as a party, with respect to reaching out to minorities and i think it's important to georgia, parly what we're talking about before the break, about the browning of our state. hispanic immigration and so forth. the republican message needs to be and will be a message that says, we believe in opportunity for everybody. and that we may -- that's our goal. we think that's a goal all americans share. our approach might be a little different in that we want to look at keeping taxes low and inspiring small businesses and business people to take risk and put capital at work so they may hire people. that's our vision. but that's so they hopefully, will resonate in all community in addition black communities. i think having messengers for

that message in the form of tim scott and others is -- >> 2016? >> yes, sir. >> how did you find that when you ran -- you ran in georgia, right? >> i did. i ran in south georgia, that part of georgia that kevin was referring to. and i found that that message did resonate, much like tim scott i ran well among white americans and not as well as i had hoped among black americans and other minorities. but i think that this is a process not an event. and it puts the onus on the party to have a message again, that resonates in all communities. >> if colin powell had run for president when everyone wanted him to, when he was getting all the pressure, he would have gotten a stooishl percentage of the black vote despite the fact that most black voters weave still been democrats and would have still voted for democrats in large numbers in other campaigns. the thing that makes colin powell different from tim scott

is that colin powell is willing to talk about issues that are relevant to the black community, like affirmative action. he's been very vocal about, you know, saying that we still need some forms of intervention that recognize that black people the not yet play from a level playingfield and i think that's a substantial difference. actually, i agree that i think there is -- one of the things that the republicans see and are taking advantage of is the fact that they can get black vote if they think about how they're reaching out to black voters. i just don't think a tim scott, particularly given some of the statements he's made about not wanting to talk about race -- >> here's what i'm hear which gets to an interesting complexity of american racial politics in the year 2012. two trends. in some ways our politics are becoming more racialized in the sense of look at the exit polling. it is increasingly the case that one party is a very multiracial coalition. one party is not a particularly

multiracial coalition and these are the numbers, right? >> but the blacks in that multiracial vote out of solidarity. what are the ideological constructs of that? what are you demanding of democrats? sometimes some of us see very little outside of your black. i'm black. i'm going to vote for you as opposed to the white man. >> wait a second. that's something -- let me just say, when white people on fox news make that point people go crazy. >> i don't believe that at all. the conversation we had about colin powell is accurate. he would have gotten a significant amount of the black vote because of his core. because of his values and because of his policy positions. so he would not have taken a number of policy positions that alan west takes or that tim scott -- hold on i let you speak so i want to finish what i'm saying. the policy position of democrats have been more aligned with black interests which is why black people used to be

republicans. this notion that we vote democrat in mass, because of some strange predeelection tied to our race is -- >> very little difference in the south between a white southern democrat and a white republican as it relates to -- >> that is absolutely not true. >> that is absolutely true. >> ask a family on medicaid whether that's the case. if you have a -- if you have an elected official that doesn't believe in the allocation of medicaid, significantly reduces medicaid, that significantly reduces access to education, that significantly reduces -- there's a difference. >> on the margin, vote for the obama budget. if obama votes to raise the age for medicare, medicaid or for social security, white officials will go along with obama. i'm kind of worried about the fact that they're talking about raising the retirement age to 69 when the black male life span is

67. and if a white republican -- if a republican we're talking about raised the retirement age of social security, folks would be up in arms but they're not up in arms now. but -- but the republican -- >> a republican hadn't done five other critical things to the black community. >> i'm not arguing that republicans are better than democrats i'm saying that the black that voted for race on obama and you know they have. >> you can run the tape. the problem with meetings like this is we can play it back. you said there's a marginal difference between a white republican and a white democrat. >> in the south there's a marginal difference between a blue dog and a -- >> part of this is that the convergence towards conservatism in the south. >> a political culture of the south is such that peopling that get elected because of the political culture? >> the bubble of politics is on the right. and we're operating open the right within that bubble. democrats operate on the right within that bubble. >> here's the question.

here's the question i think that's crucial here, right? which is, the demographic changes in the south, particularly in a place like georgia, but also, the political changes in a place like virginia and north carolina, are moving votes into the democratic column, right? the question is -- is it moving the center of the ideological center of gravity in those states as well? >> no question. if you look at where the core votes are, the number of votes in congress, the hard votes, the hard votes on saving the automobile industry, white democrats voted in favor of that. the hard votes that we have had to take regarding extending social services, unemployment insurance, these things matter. the hard votes that we took regarding taking $50 billion away from the banking industry, just so that they could actually go to kids so they could get for need-based aid. cutting interest rates for kids -- >> talking about the student loan agreement?

>> yes, which you knee wasn't nothing but a $50 million float. >> let's talk about white women. i'm going there. chris, you talked about the polarization this past presidential election and there was a lot of talk about the gender divide and a lot of that gender divide said women went overwhelmingly for obama. if you look at regional politics, white women overwhelmingly voted for mitt romney. white women in the south were the ones voting for mitt romney. white women in the northeast were voting for obama. that's actually why -- so there is absolutely, a racial -- a nonracialized yesterday logical divide among why this. i think that's -- we always focus on what's going on idealogically with people of color. what about white people? >> this is the key thing. when you start slicing and dicing the data and look at exit polling data and we have the categories that are fixed in hour head to look for, african-american and white and

we find the divisions, nothing ever jumps out at me more than the regional difference. when you break the country up into regions you have one yooisht lier. the south. the south has different politics than the rest of the country and i think eye guys would agree with that. >> the south is culturally conservative i would argue. and i think that that's what makes georgia a difficult state for democrats regardless of race. and i think it's also what provides an opportunity for republicans in terms of reaching hispanics and browning of america, reaching those people with a message that's -- >> let me make this final point that policy matters to voters of all races but you're not going to join a political keelgs if you think you're going to be in kielgs with people that hate you or say stuff about you behind your back and this applies to democrats with things like people who are really die-hard gun owners. right? democrats say all i want, we're not going to take your guns at a policy level but you don't get

into political coalitions with people you think despised eye as a matter of rule. d dylan and kevin, thanks for joining us. i really enjoyed it. have a great holiday. >> take care. prescribe hasn't pardoned many people. christmas is the time to do it. we'll talk about that when we come back. is a complete multivin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%,

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during the holiday one's mind turns to grace and mercy and the policy embodiment of mercy is a constitutional provision that gives the president of united states the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the united states. we know that our justice system is deeply, deeply imperfect. people are convicted who are innocent of their crimes. sometimes for capital offenses. in other cases someone is in the

wrong place at the wrong time and ends up with a sentence so harsh it offends our sense of proportionality. and in some cases, the person has transformed himself so completely from the crime and you give a new person a chance of redemption through a new life. the bad news is that president obama has used his ability to pardon less than any modern president has. in four years he's only pardoned and commuted 23 sentences while at the same point in his presidency george bush hat pardoned and commuted 23 sentences. this is a case where i and many others believe, demand mercy. the first is don seigleman. the former democratic governor of alabama who was prosecuted by the bush administration department of justice during the same period of time that we know karl rove was contacting federal prosecutors and pushing them towards politically advantageous

prosecutions. the two years later that investigation led to an indictment of seigleman on a medicaid fraud charge that was such a terrible case the judge threw it out for lack of evidence before a single witness had a chance to testify. then, in 2005, the u.s. attorney's office indicted seigleman again, this time on rico charges for allegedly giving a state position to a donor in exchange to donations to a campaign the governor was running, not his own, to state lottery to better fund the state's schools. the national prosecutor managing that case, was u.s. attorney allow are can necanary. and get this, the campaign manager for the republican governor bob riley who seigleman had almost defeated in 2002 and who had seigleman had vowed to run against in 2006.

that's right. the u.s. prosecuting attorney managing the case was married to the man managing the case of seigleman's opponent. the star witness for the prosecution who came he had saw the governor with a check in his hand after meeting with the donor was demonstratively wrong about the time and had been extorting alabama businessmen and cooperated with the prosecutors to avoid a ten-year sentence for his own crimes. nevertheless, after two deadl k deadlocks the jewish acquitted him on 27 and convicted him. the federal judge sentenced him to seven years in prison. over 100 former politicians have tried to get him freed. this has over 41,000 signatures and you can find it at free don.org. the other man is clarence aaron convicted of a nonviolent drug fence in 1993, a 24-year-old

college student with no criminal record. due to mandatory minimums he was sentenced to life without parole. aaron, introduced friends of his dealing drugs to another group of drug dealers interested in doing business with them and was indicted with four others and charged with conspiracy. aaron's problem was that unlike the actual drug dealers indicted along with him he did not turn state's evidence, largely with he says, because he didn't flow enough about what the deelters were actually up to. the other folks indicted did testify and received sentence ranging to 20 years down to probation and all of them appeared in court to put the lion's share of the blooirm for criminal activity on clarence aaron. his case has gotten wide attention and a trend towards pardon and clemency. the process runs through the department of justice's pardon attorney. he has vetted pardon applications and made the recommendations that are ultimately conveyed to the white house. in a scathing reporter from the do jechlt inspector jean this

month, rogers was found to have omitted key facts from his write-up of aaron's case leading them to charge him with conduct that fell substantially short of the high standards expected of the department of justice employees and the duty he owed the president of the united states. in 2008, aaron had secured support for a commitation from the sentence in mobile, alabama, as well as the sentencing judge. but that crucial information was omitted from rogers' report to the white house which recommended aaron's application be denied. aaron is an inmate at the federal penitentiary in t tallade talladega, alabama, where he'll likely spend the rest of his life unless president obama grants him the mercy that the attorney that prosecuted him and the judge that sentenced him believe he should get, pardons and clemency allow the president to grant clemency and forgiveness. if the president can't do that, at least do it for the simple purpose of justice.

we'll look at gun control and how australia put an end tomas shootings right after in this. [ male announcer ] playing in the nfl is tough.

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6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ there's a strong this week towards political action over gun safety over the shooting at sandy hook. senator feinstein says she will introduce a new bill to ban assault weapons and president obama proposed coming up with a set of concrete proposals and new york governor andrew cuomo said thursday he'll push for a new package of gun safety legislation including conmiss skags or mandatory sale of residents' guns to the state. that idea sounds impractical, consider that that was already done in australia. after a mass shooting in that country killed 35 people in 1996, australia's national firearms' act effectively banned assault weapons. the guns were banned and the

buy-back program was kpucompuls. they decide after the law took effect the gun homicide rate in that country dropped by 42%. you should also know that 11 gun massacres occurred in the decade before awe stral yee national firearms act and there have been zero mass shootings since, according to the study published in 2009. of course, can that kind of proven policy response is not your thing, there's those like wayne la pierre that have different ideas like packing public schools with armed security officers, a notion so far afield the neerk post, owned by the right-wing but pro gun safety, require perth murdoch printed this page yesterday for the coverage of the news conference calling him a "gun nut" and a "loon." so now the big question is, what kind of regulation will actually work? what can proposals for effective regulation survive the political obstacles that men like la pierre willy to its way.

we have the mayor from philadelphia, former governor of new jersey, james florio and it's great to have you all at the table. so, what works? what now? what do we do? governor? >> in nmg knowledge we have the toughest assault weapon ban in the nation and we got it through because we dealt with reality. the reality is that the gun people, the gun lobby works from the premise that in fact, a small amount of true believers with resources overwhelm the public interests because the general public is usually not engaged and uninformed. when you engage and inform the general public, which we did in new jersey, they can prevail. and the response from the gun lobbyists run out the clock which is what they're going to try to do again. try to have a rope-a-dope situation where the public will looirz interest and they will prevail and you can't allow that to happen. >> when you say it's the strongest, what does that mean? what does the legislation do?

>> one of the major things we do is not allow gun manufacturers to make cosmetic changes on the assault weapons and then maintain they're not assault weapons. that's very significant. a couple of states have assault weapon bans but they are full of loopholes including the one in connecticut. >> is there anything that can be done? it seems like it's an issue that has to be on a national level which is why i think, tough mayors? is there anything that can be done at the level of, say, philadelphia governance. >> we have passed some laws in philadelphia and some have made it past the nra lawsuit. and have been sustained by our pennsylvania supreme court. but states and the federal government, there should be a series of pretty strong policies across the united states of america. and then, either states or local governments can enhance, if he want to, but should never be able to low-ball. the u.s. conference of mayors we advocated three major things. one, there should be an assault

weapons' ban across united states. no reason for a civilian to ever have an assault rifle, machine gun, multiclips, and so the second part is the large magazines. >> machine guns are banned. >> fully automatic weapons. >> right. if you're putting out hundreds of rounds, you know, a minute, i heap, i'm not going to get into a debate about semiautomatic or automatic, it's a lot. right? large magazines and the clips, 30, 50, you know, 100 rounds, i mean, that's crazy, too. that's the second. >> the shooter aurora had 100-round drums. >> again, why does in the civilian need that? third, we must fix and we can, this is just technology, on the background identification system and closing the gun show loophole. four, as has been talked about and has to be a part of any package, that we really deal with the issues of mental health changes. you see in the fiscal cliff, although in your box it says fiscal curb, it's fiscal.

cuts are proposed in mental health services. that, of course, makes no sense whatsoever. so you put that together as a package, that's what we should be looking at. obviously, safety and training, you have to go through more to get a car in virtually any state across the united states of america. than you do in most states including pennsylvania, to get a gun. so, trigger locks. lockers. registering the weapon. lost and stolen provisions. we passed that in philadelphia and was sued by the nra. on the 100th day in office in '08, one of the pridest moments of my entire elected krooir, lost and stolen. you have to report your car if it's stolen if you want a claim from the insurance company. you certainly have to do the same thing for a weapon. these are reasonable, rooishl, straight-forward things. new jersey has figured out how to protect the second amendment and making people safer and new york has as well. >> will these things fly in georgia and atlanta? >> first of all, i think you need to start the conversation

by respecting the second amendment so that we don't have a discussion about the second amendment. so we respect that in georgia and value it. the second part, i think, really is the path laid by ronald regan. the most important bill that ronald regan worked on after he was president was the assault ban and the brady bill. the nra fought him tooth and nail -- they fought ronald reagan on the brady bill and on the assault-ban bill which ewe allowed to lapse. the other thing is, we can't miss this moment. everybody around this table knows if 20 children are killed and we don't get a bill now, we're never going to get it so i agree with the governor. hooirs absolutely right, which is why i'm here this morning. we have to develop a strategy, through the month of january, to keep the national attention focused on this issue, so they don't, as the governor said, rope-a-dope. >> maier reed is a signer and rob emanuel and a bunch of

mayors across the country 37 hundreds of them. but what i said, time is not our friend on this. a all-out, hands on deck, aggressive campaign from december to january, we cannot mess around with this. >> i want to bring in rebecca peters, one of the arc 2ek9 ae texts of the gun legislation in australia. after the break. uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery.

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guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. ♪ don't know what i'd do ♪ i'd have nothing to prove [ male announcer ] zales is the diamond store. save 25 percent off an amazing selection storewide, now through monday. case of case by murderous rampage by disturbed and violent thugs the ability to assault weapons to kim and mooim, not just a few but 8, 10, 14, 35 people in just minutes, has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. >>s that then, senator joe biden of delaware testifying or -- not testifying but talking about the assault weapons ban in 1993 when the federal version was being pushed three. this is rebecca pierce, former

chair of australia's national coalition for gun control. thanks for joining us. walk us through what happened in australia in the wake of the horrific shooting there. and what the policies -- what policies were put in place? >> well, what happened after the pulled off the massacre in australia was thperhaps, the mo important underlying principle was that we got uniform national gun laws across the country. the gun laws in australia are state laws as primarily the merp gun laws are, too. for many years we saw the problem of some states having title laws and those being undermined by the states where the laws were much less tight. and that's a very big problem in the u.s. where there's a iron pipeline that goes from the states with lax laws to the states with tight laws. after the massacre there was an

agreement which said -- all states are going to pass laws meeting a certain standard. the standards in the national firearms agreement were that number one, a ban on semiautomatic rifles and shotguns. ban on assault weapons and a e buy-back program. uniform licensing standards. registration of all guns. strong standards on safe storage. waiting periods. and the -- perhaps the most important thing was the fact that every gun sale had to be subject to a very high standard of background checks. not only for criminal convictions, but also, domestic violence and things like that. the system makes it possible, especially because there is a waiting period, it makes it possible for the licensing authority to make inquiries.

so if, for example, the police find out, they talk to the local police in your town and they ask for references. is there any reason to be concerned about this person who wants to own a gun owning one? and because there is that strict checking system, it also acts as a break on the buildup of arsenals. so although there's not a numerical limit on the number of guns people can own, in fact, it is very difficult to own more than about say, three to five guns, whereas in the past people could own 20 guns without any increasing level of scrutiny as the arsenal grew. so those are probably the main aspects. >> what is striking about that is that, a, it goes much further than anything on the table right now. and, you know, one of the -- the first assault weapons ban, not the first assault weapons ban, but the one with clinton, famously had a grandfather

clause which meant all the assault weapons out there remained legal. there was no essentially, mandatory buy-back program like australia. >> one thing that's so important about this is that 300 million guns that are in homes today in the united states, but a large number of them apparently are concentrated so you have people that own seven guns. you know, i don't know who needs seven guns, particularly if we're up holding the second amendment because there's nothing that guarantees you get to have a personal arsenal. one of the examples from australia is extremely important. the other thing is we have to remember that the u.s. accounts for 80% of the deaths due to these kinds of weapons. and 87% -- globally. and 87% of the death of children globally. >> governor? >> i mean, it's important to note that up until this event in connecticut, we were going in the wrong direction. i mean, most embarrassing to watch the house of representatives take up a bill that would have prevented the sale of weapons to people on the terrorism list.

the bill failed. this is crazy. we have to get to the point of having a conversation about whether the public interest is somehow served by having access to uzis and a kept 47s. >> it mike makes me think what the table won't solve the problem. we need something much more aggressive, that is, outside of this political conversation. >> i think you'll have a couple of different conversations going on the president obama has asked the absolutely right pepper, vice president joe biden, to head up the effort and he wants a report by end of january so that's right now. there's also been discussion and, again, the u.s. conference of mayors and others, we also support a commission, a serious operation that looks at the larger issue of violence in america. we have a violence problem. gun problem, we have a swrooirns problem. domestic violence, child abuse, a number of things. you look at what blooimayor blog

has been doing. mayors against illegal guns. both of us are members. there are a lot of things that need to be done and i'm always nervous on big issues when someone says, what's the one thing you can do? there is no one thing. there are a bunch of things, city, state and federal level and everyone has a role to play. >> we need to get the biggest deal we can get done right now or we'll lose the moment. we need to get the four to five things that we can prove make the biggest difference. and we also need to get comfortable with the fact that this is going to be tough. this is not going to be easy because of the moment. and this is a situation where everybody who's been talking about this all the time, needs to be prepared to engage right here, right now. and be in a serious competition of ideas. >> rebecca, i want you to give some advice to u.s. politicians and policymakers, if something as comprehensive as what was done in australia isn't feasible here, what's the place to start?

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rebecca peters. what should u.s. lawmakers be prioritizing if the comprehensive package put through in australia is not feasible at this moment? >> they package in australia was very comprehensive and the results have been outstanding. so we have as you said, we've not had a mass shooting since that time and also, guns are now at 50% of what they were before the reform. so the chances of being murdered with a gun in australia are 130th now compared to the u.s. in terms of population rates. but if you -- so, even if -- if the package had not been so comprehensive perhaps we wouldn't have had a 50% reduction. perhaps a 20% reduction or any reduction would be really, really good for america to have. but in terms of the specific

policies, it's important for the federal legislation to set the standard. so the two priorities that president obama identified of the assault weapons' ban and your honor versal background checks, are, i would say, the right place to start. at the moment, you only have to undergo a background check if you're buy a gun brand new in a shop in most states in america. and if you buy it second hand you usually don't have to undergo a background check. and, yet, a gun you buy secondhand is just as lethal as a new one so that's the starting point. as the mayors have pointed out, if the federal government sets the standard, then the states and the cities can pass additional measures to fill in some of the gaps and raise the overall standard of safety. so that's my advice. >> let me make this -- ask this question again, mayors and governor flori oechos well. most of the people getting killed in atlanta and philadelphia are handguns. they are not assault weapons. what the weapon of death in the

city is the handgun. >> 85% of the murders in philadelphia and undporchly we're up over 300 this year, are with guns and almost all are handguns. all of which are illegal. in the hands of someone who shouldn't have they will. mostly bought, straw purchases. it's not always you know, somebody with a trunk full of guns in their car. you can now actually, in philly and other cities, you can rent guns now. go to a stash house. they give you a full array. what do you want? how long do you need it? put your money down, bring it back next week. this is the kind of insanity we're dealing with. and there are assault weapons on the street but mostly your glocks or -- >> if that's the case what good will this do? >> this does a lot of good. we've cut murders in atlanta to record lows. 1969/1970 levels. but what we know is nobody should be able to fire off 100 bullets. so let's not take the handgun copation and intermingle it with

this. i care about if handgun conversation but right now somebody not be able to walk in anywhere and shoot 100 rounds. >> the mayor said, this is a step by step process but if you don't do something right now you're won't make any progress. >> this is the crowbar. >> absolutely. i completely agree with that. we have to deal with the semiautomatic weapons. but it is important to note if we have one child or teen killed every three hours in this country, and that is because of what the mayor is talking about, then i think we have to use this opportunity to also, start the conversation about what solves that. because it isn't going to be semiautomatic weapons. one point about this operation rescue, which was a boston strategy which targeted the hot spots for illegal gun use, usually gang violence and successfully pulled it down. >> i think the assault weapon ban is the first step to change the culture. it will be hard but we've done it with smoking and we can do it snee rebecca peters, formerly

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♪ busy is the best christmas song of the last decade, that's mariah carey. what should you consider in the week ahead? consider a few of the organizations we think are doing incredible work across the world. an sbiting new organization called give money will transfer the money to the recipient's cell phone. at least 90% of the money goes to the people who need it. solar electric light fund powers health centers learning and crop irrigation. health care is not just a privilege but human rights.

i am continuely in awe of thinker commitment to justice. a network called architecture for humanity provides free services to schools in impovr shed areas. guiding eyes for the blind. an internationally guide dog school provides guide dogs to blind people at no cost. an animal protection organization provides a refuge for farm animals in california and new york. there's the aspca that funds shelters that protect animals and protect them from hurricane disasters. antihunger organization called family-to-family with doe nar

families that provide food and other necessities. job placement services to those that have been disconnected through the economy through layoffs and incarcerations. all these groups do incredible work to achieve a sustainable future to all. a small donation can and does make a huge difference. we will post to our facebook page. i want to find out the organizations my guests think you should think of supporting in this holiday season. mayor reid? >> last week, we had the 29th mayor's ball in the city of atlanta. raised money for college funld. we send kids to college. itc in atlanta. i encourage everybody to go to the college fund uncf, a find is a terrible thing to waist. >> maya?

>> eight children or teens are going to be killed in the coming days or week. my vice president of marketing would kill me if i didn't say you should support it, i won't be that self-serving. organizations like young people's project in mississippi or league of young voters all are working in communities of color. almost half of those deaths are going to be in communities of color. >> there are amazing groups we should talk about in a future show. they are doing violence interruption work in communities in a remarkably effective way, a way that's effective. it's something we'll come back to. >> philly goes to college is located within the mayor's office. it helps those young at heart to go to college. one of my goals in philadelphia to is double the college degree rate trying to get up in the

high 30s and 40s. it's a one-stop shop located on the first floor in city hall. help folks get all the information they need to go to college. >> is this an independent organization that people can donate to? >> philly goes to college is in that office. we have fund for philadelphia for people to make donations and designate i.'s a great, great office with a bunch of folks in there. >> very cool. is that something you started? >> yes. >> all right. my family is involved with the ymca movement for early childhood development. my wife is involved to help people have a better lifestyle. they are working with the jewish community center. the ymca movement is deserving. >> the ymca as well. i would say to people this, if you are watching this right now

and people are hurting out there and the recession has hammered people, i understand it's the christmas season and the holiday season and you are trying to buy presents. think about the credit card bill in january. but, if you do have a little bit there, if there's another 10 or 20 or $100, if you are watching this right now, so much in american life depends on the generosity of donations. that's a political question we could talk about later. i think what ends up happening is we think about that january credit card bill. if you are watching this and have a laptop open in front of you. we are going to put up the links. you have heard a bunch of organizations. there are people doing amazing work and we don't give them enough credit. i want to thank my guests today. atlanta mayor reid. we are going to have you back on to talk about stadiums. you are building a stadium in

atlanta. you are killing it this year. stadium policy is something we want to talk about. philadelphia mayor michael nutter and former new jersey governor thank you all. thank you for joining us. we'll be back next weekend saturday and sunday at 8:00 eastern time for the latest on the approaching fiscal curve and what's happening with the tea party this year. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. a speaker with no clout, a president with no deal. that's melissa harris perry, next week. i would like to wish you a merry christmas or a merry war on christmas, which ever you celebrate. and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes!

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